Lessons learned from Revenge of the Sith
- When the leader says “Everything’s fine, go wait on the LAVA PLANET”, be suspicious.
- The Dark Side of the Force is called “The Dark Side” for a reason. It’s not like “The Dark Side of the Moon”.
- Robots with cutesy voices are annoying, not adorable. That goes double for aliens with cutesy voices. Triple for robots with cutesy voices and smoker’s cough.
- For some reason, robots talk to each other in English, instead of using wifi or bluetooth or something.
- Coruscant OB/GYN technology leaves something to be desired. [Update: "Luke" and "Leia" are clearly the Naboo words for "Morphine" and "Epidural"]
- 20 years seems like nothing when you’re ruling the galaxy.
- Don’t forget what happened to your mother in the last movie, or there will be extra exposition.
- Darth Vader is not scarier with an artful allusion to Frankenstein.
Great fight choreography, but man… what a piece of garbage.
May 20th, 2005 at 11:52 am
You’re really surprised about this? That’s three Star Wars movies and two Matrix sequels in three years.
May 20th, 2005 at 12:17 pm
Well, yes, I’m a little surprised. Not a lot surprised. Despite all of its failings, I still reasonably enjoyed Episode II. The Matrix sequels at least sucked because they didn’t have any idea of what the story actually was. A lot of things about Episode III were simply carry overs from Episode I – midichlorians, bumbling droid armies, stupid alien accents, etc… – that had largely been backed away from in Episode II.
May 20th, 2005 at 5:32 pm
Lessons Learned from Revenge of the Sith
May 20th, 2005 at 6:03 pm
I learned, never date a Jedi. It makes them crazy.
May 20th, 2005 at 6:26 pm
I love the comment about the naboo words for morphine etc. It was the oddest birthing position as well. I think she died because someone was telling her to keep her lets together. The babies should have been tobogganists rather than Jedi kin.
The whole ‘you can keep her alive if you become a sith’ thing was so unconvincing. Yep, so I keep my girlfriend alive if I massacre hundreds of people. I think most philosophy departments would have something to say about that (would you eat a chicken if I threatened to kill another chicken question). The fact old ‘Ani’ was supposed to be a wise Jedi and couldn’t see the bloomin’ obvious was hilarious.
Their words of love scene was bizarre. It made no sense. Something about her looking beautiful and then the conversation turned weird. No wonder she felt he wasn’t sharing something with her – that is decent character, plot and direction. To be fair, she looked upset a lot and quite right too!
May 20th, 2005 at 6:43 pm
hurr, you’re funny!!!1
May 20th, 2005 at 6:51 pm
Few other questions:
- Why is the death star at the end half-finished if it takes another 17 years to complete it?
- How does Amdiala give birth to children without eben opening her thighs?
- How can about ten sentences (hey, the dark side is cool – uh, I don’t know – no, really!”) change twenty years of intensive training?
ah, there is so much more. this film is just so sad…
May 20th, 2005 at 6:55 pm
Short Ends: Weekend Potpourri
· The LAT on the celebrity “pinata syndrome”: Hey, where did we leave our blindfold and whooping stick? · Daniel Radosh, coiner of the term “Lohanboobies,” has had his fill…
May 20th, 2005 at 6:55 pm
did you really saw the movie people, werent you paying attention? the alien doctor said, there was nothing wrong with her, that she was dying because she lost the will to live, and i dont think anyone will ever come up with a medicine for that.
May 20th, 2005 at 6:58 pm
I heard that. But what kind of diagnostic tool do you use to test “will to live”? I want one!
May 20th, 2005 at 7:24 pm
“ONLY the Sith deal in absolutes!” HA!
And why not have a will to live if you are about to give birth? Some parent she was going to be anyway.
May 20th, 2005 at 7:30 pm
9: the big long slow-motion “Nooooooo!” is more–not less–ridiculus when you’re wearing a Darth Vader helmet.
May 20th, 2005 at 7:32 pm
ROTSITH Provides Many Valuable Lessons
Adam Fields was kind enough to lay out some valuable lessons that he learned from this weekend’s reigning box office champeen. The comments continue the fun. Once we see the flick ourselves, we will have many to contribute, we’re sure….
May 20th, 2005 at 7:39 pm
The day we put star wars up to critical analysis is the day we loose what attracted us to it in the first place; the enjoyment we got out of it when we saw it as kids who knew no better.
I think when we start being able to pick at what we see as the stupid mistakes in films like this we have lost the naivety which made them so great when we knew no better and it all makes me wonder if I could ever be so affected by a film again.
Of course there are alot of flaws with the films but judging by the reactions of the younger people in the cinema I saw it in, Lucas hit the spot. Also reading through the posts, I half thought I’d stumbled into some sort of Midwifes Star Wars fan club. But I had a good laugh thinking what that birthing scene would have been like if her legs were akimbo with some sort of droid with a plunger and forceps mining for twins…oh yes that would have been realistic – and it would have looked stupid(er).
May 20th, 2005 at 7:40 pm
Did I like episode 3? One Word: Nnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooo! [shaking fists]
May 20th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
And you mean to tell me that the Dark Lord of the Sith searched the galaxy for his child, and “traitorous” Master, Obi Wan, for twenty years, and NEVER CHECKED AT HIS BROTHER’S HOUSE, BACK ON TATTOOINE?
“RASP WHEEZE RASP WHEEZE…Owen, this is Darth. Is Luke over there? RASP WHEEZE”
May 20th, 2005 at 8:00 pm
Debate and discuss: Who would grow up worse; a boy named “Anni” or A Boy Named Sue?
May 20th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Roughly 19 years pass between Episodes 3 and 4, when Darth Vader finally learns that his kids are with his dead wife’s relatives. So no matter whether or not you’re aligned with the Dark or Light side of the Force, the DCFS sure doesn’t move any faster.
May 20th, 2005 at 8:15 pm
molton, I highly disagree. I think what we’re missing from Episode III is the enjoyment we got out of it when we saw Star Wars as kids who did know better.
May 20th, 2005 at 8:16 pm
lol adam those are great. here are some lessons i learned about writing movie scripts..
10. Your characters will be taken seriously if you give them lines like “Hold me, Ani! Hold me like you did by that lake on Naboo!!”
11. If its obvious to everyone in the movie and in the audience that your emperor is one bad cookie, just make your hero an oblivious retard.
12. No matter how big the production, using iMovie for scene transitions always works.
13. Need a quick end the clone wars in your script? Just have your guy hyperspace to the trade federation planet and kill all the trade federation guys. It takes like fifteen seconds of script.
14. When you have a huge battleship being torn apart with countless people dying as it burns through the atmosphere, its a good time to have your characters telling lame jokes.
15. If anyone ever criticizes your shoddy script, just tell them “into exile, will go I!.”
16. If you’ve written a script that is utterly devoid of any characters we care about, logical plot structure, dramatic tension, or believable dialogue– just throw in a shitload of CGI effects and change scenes really quickly. Itll look like a video game and nerds will love it.
May 20th, 2005 at 9:10 pm
There are few storylines I can think of that can’t be effectively broken up into 6 full-length feature films and still seem really rushed.
May 20th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
mmhah!
Worst.
Episode.
Ever.
Glaven!
(disclaimer: I loved it. I was in awe most of the time. However, I acknowledge that this may be a result of the fact that I haven’t read any of the 7,294 Star Wars novels out there. Now break it up folks, don’t your Bluetooth networks need re-securing or something? You can never secure that Bluetooth enough.)
May 20th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
Molton, I also disagree with you. I’ve seen a ton of movies where the story drew me in enough so that my “suspension of disbelief” caused me to ignore the basic plot holes and flaws of the film. But the problems with this film were too many, and the story and characters weren’t compelling enough to distract me from them. I don’t think it’s a sign of the jaded nature of filmgoers that some people are bashing this film–I think it’s a sign of problems with the script. The dialogue was stilted and stiff, the characters were unlikeable and cliched, the comedy was inappropriately timed, and there were a ton of plot points (such as the birthing technique, the way the droids all communicated with wisecracking human speech, the way one person ended the entire war in hours, etc.) that just seemed lazy or poorly thought out.
Hey, it’s cool that you enjoyed the film. I’m glad you got your money’s worth. But I’m also glad to see other people online saying, “What the heck was that?!” All the guys I went with loved the film, and I felt like I was harshing their buzz giving it a mediocre review. But I think if they saw the same film without the legacy of the original trilogy–just as a standalone sci-fi flick–they would’ve said much the same thing. The FORCE of the franchise clouded their minds.
May 20th, 2005 at 10:07 pm
Love it — I blog about Star Wars now and then, and this is great!
May 20th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
One thing I was wonderin’, since I hadn’t seen the movie yet. If Padme dies, does Leia see her? If you remeber back in Epi. VI, Luke asks Leia if she remembers her parents and she recalls her mother dying when she’s young, but remembering a smiling face.
Does having a lot of mitochondria and being strong with the Force at birth let you have that good of a memory?
Another bit of logic gone awry…
May 20th, 2005 at 11:14 pm
I spent most of the movie trying to remember what midichlorians were and then remembered they were NOT mitochondria. Mitochondria exist but I’m not sure about the midichlorians. Let’s ask Madeleine L’Engle. I thought the end was sad, but it always makes me cry when someone goes over to the dark side…sniff.
May 20th, 2005 at 11:16 pm
Chris:
I’m pretty sure that the novels mentioned that Leia had foster parents. It was probably her foster mother that she remembers.
May 20th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
The Ultimate Heresy
It stunk. There. I said it. Not as much as Episode II, not nearly as much as Episode I, but it still stunk. Sith lacks everything that made Empire great. First and foremost, it lacks a director not named
May 20th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
OK, so the entire Jedi Council, full of Jedi Masters, is in their little meeting room. Well I take that back, there were a few that were on other planets and we saw their “images” being beamed in during the council meetings. So they’ve talked about looking for this Sith Lord for many many years and yet with all their knowledge of force, they couldn’t tell he was a few blocks over in another building? Freakin’ Obi-Wan felt an entire planet being blown apart light years away, yet the council of Jedi Masters couldn’t tell that the Dark Sith Lord was around the corner! Another thing, Obi-wan gets his ass kicked by Dooku when they were trying to save Palpatine and Anni kills Dooku (I’m assuming because Anni said his powers have grown 20 times stronger or whatever since their last meeting as I’m sure he’s been able to train quite a bit…lol). So then at the end of Episode III, Obi-wan kicks Anni’s ass and leaves him for dead…this after we assume Anni gets even stronger with the dark side of the force. Maybe it’s like starting over though, his main job is now with the dark side so after killing the separatists he gained like Level 2 in the dark side and Obi-wan is like at Level 55 in the good side…whatever…stupid stupid stupid. Then you have the scene where they are trying to land the star cruiser that broke apart. So of course nobody on the planet would be trying to shoot down a run-away star cruiser that was about to take out their landing field. And wait a minute, now that I think about it, why the hell would they need a landing strip when ships took off vertically in the future? Oh man, it’s getting worse the more I think about this stupid script. Then you have Padme not realizing (again I’m assuming they’ve done high tech ultrasounds during her pregnancy) that the two little blips on the screen are twins! Also I’m sure a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away they never listened to the baby’s heart beats during the pregnancy. I’m sure if they did, the droid doctor just said the two beats she’s hearing is just an echo or something stupid. And why would they wipe the protocol droid’s memory (C-3P0) and not the astromech droid’s memory (R2-D2)? Is that because not many people can understand the beeps and whistles? Luke was able to do so, don’t you think R2-D2 would want to fill Luke in on a “little secret” about Darth Vader? Then there’s the whole “execute directive 66″ bullcrap. Like nobody would have checked on what the heck the “creators” would have taught/programmed into the clones? If the Jedi Council didn’t trust Palpatine, they sure did trust his judgment with the clones. One last thing, why the hell didn’t Chewy ever mention he used to hang with Yoda?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
May 20th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
See, the dirty little secret of the Star Wars universe is that R2 is really calling all of the shots.
May 21st, 2005 at 12:20 am
I get a big kick out of the people who hated Episode 1, hated Episode 2, and still saw Episode 3 opening weekend.
If you bought a Coke that tasted bad, and then second one also tasted bad, would you buy another?
George Lucas is laughing at you every time he looks at his bank statements.
May 21st, 2005 at 12:52 am
What I learned from Star Wars:
If you are going to go to the trouble of cutting someones legs off, take some basic pride in your work and finish the job.
Honestly… Obi-Wan knew he’d led the attack on the temple, watched him kill the younglings, and had nearly been killed by him. I’d take that a good cue it was time to help Anakin “curl up his tootsies and shuffle off this mortal coil, go and join the bleedin’ choir…” (Dead Parrot Routine)
May 21st, 2005 at 12:53 am
another contradiction: obi-wan obviously knows about leia. yet in esb, he seems oblivious when yoda mentions that luke is not their last hope, that their is another. any theories?
May 21st, 2005 at 1:04 am
Maybe he assumed Leia got killed with everyone else when Alderaan was destroyed.
I have a worse one.
If Qui-Gon has just discovered the “secret of eternal life” – i.e.: the glowing afterlife special limited edition action figure trick, how does Anakin know how to do this at the end of Jedi??
May 21st, 2005 at 1:10 am
It’s amazing how … what, 15-20 film watchers/critics can pick out several inconsistencies and mental errors in a film, while all the people working for Lucas on the project couldn’t point them out. With all the harsh criticism from the previous two films, I thought his approach would be a little different on this film since the expectations would be larger than ever. I knew Steven Spielberg was helping out on sections of the movie, and seeing how his movies are strong (or at least stronger than Lucas) in making people care about characters, I thought he could’ve lended a helping hand and made that part stronger. But, alas, I was wrong. Was Lucas speaking through Yoda when he said he had failed after his battle with Darth Sidious?
Anyways, a few responses to some of the other people’s lessons before adding some of my own.
1) About the Death Star appearing half-finished, it looked real bare to me, like a skeleton compared to some of the images of it we’re shown in the later episodes. Considering the scale of the project, I think it’s reasonable that it took 20 years to complete.
2) Luke being cared for by relatives… I haven’t read any of the books, and I don’t entirely remember episodes IV-VI, but did Darth Vader ever learn that the children were born and survived? The last time Darth Vader saw Padme, she was nearly dead surrounded by lava, so maybe he thought she had perished before childbirth? Just a thought.
3) Yoda and Chewbecca… Yoda never came into contact with anyone during IV-VI except for Luke, right? Luke never mentioned Chewbacca either, so was Yoda going to tell him, “I used to know this cool wookie who kept me alive twenty years ago. Name’s Chewbacca, just in case see another wookie.” Yoda’s priority was teaching Luke the Jedi way, not hooking up with friends who may or may not be alive (remember, Chewie’s planet was being roasted by the clones when Yoda left).
Here’s some of my lessons:
1) When you come across a Jedi in a unlikely spot (say… in an elevator shaft on your ship) *always* keep them alive for questioning. Ignore all the previous encounters with the Jedi on other ships when they end up causing massive damage or killing commanders, etc. Keep them alive at all costs.
2) All ships in the galaxy have similar flight controls, even if they look different. I suppose it could be possible that Obi Wan could jump into a foreign ship and fly it, but I have my doubts.
3) Ships evolve in nanoseconds in the future. I thought it was neat to see (what seemed to be, to me) the beginnings of the Tie fighters at the start of the film, but at the end (while over looking the Death Star) didn’t the Tie fighters look like something straight out of the later episodes? Bugged me, but maybe no one else.
4) The Jedi Temple has security cameras, but no other systems in place. No lockdown of the council area, etc. If you’re going to lock away the future Jedi children, shouldn’t you make sure they’re protected and not just hiding in a room?
5) Lucas doesn’t listen to the fans. After fans hating Jar-Jar Binks in I and II, he still managed to sneak the character into this film for brief moments.
6) The Dark Side can save you when you’re being burnt alive by fire. Anakin looked doomed when he was roasting in the fire, but by the time Darth Sidious showed up, it had been snuffed out. I’m surprised he was still alive, and able to move on the operating table, but I guess he is Darth Vader after all.
So… are wookies more or less liked than the ewoks?
Has anyone seen the fan flicks of Star Wars?
May 21st, 2005 at 1:20 am
Well Wintermute, it’s a sad thing, but Obi-Wan was a sexist pig. The thought that a woman could confront and defeat the Sith was utterly incomprehensible to him. That’s my theory anyway.
May 21st, 2005 at 1:47 am
Heck, they lost me after the midichlorian fiasco…
May 21st, 2005 at 2:13 am
James M & others – Regarding Vader not knowing about the children being born.. it lookd, from the funeral procession, that they wanted it to look like Padme had died still pregnant. She had a bump! Anyway, I’d assume someone would have reported back to the baddies saying “yup, dead, still with child” …
May 21st, 2005 at 2:33 am
Forget about no epidurals, forget about giving birth with your legs together. What about Padme saying she’d be kicked off the council if her mother noticed she was pregnant– and then she’s suddenly obviously pregnant…and then we find out it’s TWINS. Um, did she not go to an OB/GYN? They have all that intergalactic technology but no 20th century ultrasound machine? No stethoscope that can detect two heartbeats? No old midwife from the medieval period who can lay on hands and say “There be two lives in there, m’lady”?
May 21st, 2005 at 3:11 am
i have never seen a person act so indecisively in such a short span of time in real life.
no, i shouldn’t do it…oh, okay…what have i done?
May 21st, 2005 at 3:39 am
i sense a lot of fear and anger in all of you
May 21st, 2005 at 5:31 am
1) When you’re on a ship that apparently uses some kind of artificial gravity, and the ship tilts and starts a rapid fall into a planet, the artificial gravity will suddenly no longer work, and rather than being in freefall you’ll fall planetward faster than the ship.
2) When a remarkably silly droid lands on the wing of your fighter only to be electrocuted by R2D2, the wind of your space flight will blow it slowly off the wing.
May 21st, 2005 at 6:42 am
I’d like to point out a few things I learned
First, the birth was not on Corscant, but on some strange planet we don’t really know.
Also, Luke does ask Leia if she remembers her Real mother. Leia seems to do so, which seems strange. I suppose that we could attribute her answer to her having visions of her mother maybe, since she does say she only remembers images and feelings…
As for Vader not finding the children, remember, the emperor tells him that he Killed Padmé, so he has no reason to believe that his children are alive.
Also, we know that Vader has wanted to protect Luke, think of his conversation with the Emperor in Empire, when the emperor says “He could destroy us…” Vader says: “He is just a boy”…
Vader has “good” in him, so he obviously wants to protect his son once he learns of his existance.
So even if Vader would be looking for them, his good subconsious could blind him to the truth.
There are many examples of this in Star Wars, like Luke having to “Search his feelings” to “know it to be true” and Leia suddenly knowing that she is Luke’s sister. It probably works the other way around… heh
Also, please note that Anakin did not lose because Obi-Wan was better, but because Obi-Wan got the high ground and when Anakin tried to jump, Obi cut his legs off. Also it is about spirit. Obi-Wan really wanted to defeat Anakin, but fighting with Dooku was not as spirity. Besides, who knows what dark side tricks the Emperor could have used to help Dooku with Obi-Wan.
As for Darth Vader/Anakin learning the secret Jedi coming back from the grave technique, we do know that he’s been searching for it, that was the biggest reason he joined the dark side (although he might have wanted a slightly more concrete resurrection). So it is entirely possible that he learned the technique during his 20 or so years as the emperors main man.. heh
But to sum up the movie, I was disappointed. I mean, sure I love all the nods to the future, like Governor Tarkin appearing on the bridge in the end, and ships that look a little bit like Tie Fighters, the bridge of the Almost Star Destroyer etc.
And at this point we can point out that cars and even military vehicles have changed in appearance quite a bit during 20 years. Just take WWI and WWII, tanks were basicly invented during WWI and 20 years later in WWII they were looking quite snazzy.
In the end, I’ll buy the DVD, and watch EpI,II,III,IV,V,VI in succession, and cry about 123 and enjoy 456, and GL will laugh at me all the way to the bank.
I would certainly have preferred they spent more time and energy into making Star Wars that we can watch 10 years from now and not have to cringe at the crappy love scenes, stale characters and crappy dialogue.
Oh, and no, Ep456 were not good simply because of nostalgia, they really were Better then 123.
For an example, try to find any good quotes from 123. Cheezy quotes from robots do not apply.
All I have to say is “Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete.” Among others.
I appologize for the length of this post.
May 21st, 2005 at 7:03 am
At least Jar-Jar kept his mouth shut – I swear everyone in the theatre was mentally daring him to say something during that ending funeral sequence. And is it just me, or when Palpatines face makup changed (after killing Windu) – did anyone else think that Lucas purposely told him to ham up the ‘evil voice’? Cause I thought it sounded ****ing ridiculous.
May 21st, 2005 at 7:56 am
I liked it. Overall, I thought it was the best of the Star Wars movies. At first I thought that maybe A New Hope was the best Star Wars, but that’s just because I saw it in the theatre when I was six. If I had seen A New Hope, and then seen Revenge of the Sith right after it I would have thought ROTS was the best thing ever (well maybe I should have watched them in order, but you get the jist.) I wince when I watch the first Star Wars now, it’s not a great movie. All the criticisms of the new Star Wars movies apply to the “original” Star Wars movies as well. They are all just fun action-type movies set in a Sci-Fi setting. If you go around picking apart plot points you’re not going to have any fun watching the movie. It’s just Die Hard with robots.
My nomination for best acting in a Star wars movie would go to R2D2.
May 21st, 2005 at 8:31 am
The answer to your question is contained in this article:-
http://jahtruth.net/starwar.htm
May 21st, 2005 at 9:00 am
Isn’t it even nearly possible that the shot of the death star is from some point later onchronologically, just giving a glimpse of what will happen?
Anakin was not alive on the operating table, darth vadar was, all strings of the life anakin had were rippied asunderas soon as he started fighting obi wan. The dark side did keep him alive, if only to laugh at his suffering. Vadar suffers every minute of his life from the minute he swears allegiance to sidious
Jedi don’t kill their own kind ever, if obi wan had killed anakin he would have been no better than a sith. The jedi fight only to defend themselves and what the believe in, never to kill.
Directive 66 was probably implanted during the cloning process, would you, after buying yourself an xbox check every line of code in a game for bugs before playing it. Thinking of clones as a blank slate and everything they have to be taught even to be able to function, nobody could have checked that. Palpatine was behind the clone armies after all. The jedi had no choice but to use the clone armies. Um should we go after this massive droid army by oursleves or with this huge army ready and willing to serve us. Think things through here.
Never mind the books saying leia had foster parents, did any body actually watch the end of the movie, organa baltently says “My WIFE and i will take her” and shows them holding the baby on alderaan. thats who she remembers!
I loved this film, it was funny and full of action nd jedi coolness.
May 21st, 2005 at 10:05 am
RE: I get a big kick out of the people who hated Episode 1, hated Episode 2, and still saw Episode 3 opening weekend.
If you bought a Coke that tasted bad, and then second one also tasted bad, would you buy another?
George Lucas is laughing at you every time he looks at his bank statements.
>>Maybe it is a good idea that I will view someones borrowed copy of this rather than pay 10.75 plus tax for a ticket.
May 21st, 2005 at 10:07 am
Why don’t they use the force to turn off the other guy’s light saber?
May 21st, 2005 at 10:13 am
Revenge of the Shit
(Warning: Episode 3 spoilers ahead!) So, Sean and I (along with a cast of thousands from work) went to see Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith on Thursday night. I was not impressed. Sure, it looked fantastic, but…
May 21st, 2005 at 10:42 am
Lessons learned from Revenge of the Sith
Funny review of Revenge of the Sith.
When the leader says “Everything’s fine, go wait on the LAVA PLANET”, be suspicious.The Dark Side …
May 21st, 2005 at 10:46 am
Funny that you all should mention Tarkin at the end – one of the greatest failings of this movie is the UTTER WASTE of casting Wayne Pygram (aka: Scorpius, the second best sci-fi villain) as Tarkin, and then only giving him about three seconds of screen time and no lines. Now I sort of hope they make an Episode Pi just so we can see Tarkin instilling fear into the regional governors. Maybe they’ll get Bryan Singer to direct that one.
May 21st, 2005 at 11:42 am
Jeff B – you’re missing the point. Die Hard works because it’s an interesting struggle against bad guys who are, more than anything else, smart and competent. In Die Hard, they ALMOST get away with it, and they’re resourceful in compensating for unforeseen circumstances. Die Hard is not great because of the bullets or the action, it’s great because Hans Gruber is an intelligent and dedicated opponent who is capable of using the weaknesses of his enemies against them. When you see him defeated, you feel like something has been accomplished.
What I don’t like about the prequels is that in many cases, the losing party has certain skills that we know they have, and they just inexplicably don’t use them. It makes the whole thing seem rigged.
When Vincent Vega gets whacked because he had to go to the bathroom, he’s more human. When ALL of the Jedi get whacked from behind except Yoda, I think “are these guys just stupid?”. I might accept even some little explanation like “the Force doesn’t work on clones, because they have no souls”. But there has to be some consistency there.
May 21st, 2005 at 1:34 pm
Adam, I’m still gonna say this: There was NO reason to expect that this was going to be any good. You’re trying to screen out all that was bad about, say, Ep II in the name of loyalty to a franchise, which is one of the great artistic abominations of our era. Good films (even good pop films, as in those which cannot survive a serious critical analysis, like, say, Superman I) should just stand on their own, not because they’re. Lucas wants people to see RotS because it’s part of the SW franchise, and thus he knows he’ll rake in the dough. Why play to that?
May 21st, 2005 at 1:36 pm
Episodes 4, 5 and 6 are absolutely just as awful as these three movies. But, I have to say, as far as entertainment value is concerned, episode 3 has them all trumped.
Acting and characters and plot are weak in all 6 movies. Each movie has 178 inconsistencies. Episode 1 = garbage, episode 2 = garbage, episode 3 = garbage, episode 4 = garbage, episode 5 = garbage, episode 6 = garbage.
But, every one of these films is fun if you put yourself in the mindset of a 8-12 year old kid.
Grow up. Movies like like Eternal Sunshine are adult science fiction. Star Trek, Star Wars, Farscape, Babylon 6 and so one are for kids and people who want to feel like kids. Harlon Ellison called Star Wars “Cowboys and Indians in space,” and that’s exactly what it is. In that frame of mind, spaceships fly by with doppler-effect coolness in a vacuum, and contained plasma beams glance off the shoulder of bad-guys in the heat of battle. It’s just corny fun, and all of you are retarded.
May 21st, 2005 at 2:03 pm
I may or may not see Sith. Does anyone remember when Star Wars came out? Before it was “Episode IV”? When it was just Star Wars and it was only one picture. It was fun. It was a great entertaining yarn. It was a great expression of the directors love for the pulp science fiction stories of the 30’s and 40’s. That’s what was so great about it. And then the next two movies followed, and nitpicking aside, they were basically on a par with the first movie and they finished out the story. More fun.
Star Wars I, II, and III fail because they solemnly suffer under the weight of their own mythology. The years between the two trilogys saw the rise of “Star Wars” as a cultural institution. By the time “A New Hope” came out, there was no chance it could have the lightness and fun of the earlier epic. Too bad.
May 21st, 2005 at 2:04 pm
Lessons:
Everybody in the Jedi order has to follow the dress code. No more exceptions for nifty black ensambles.
Surprise endings are good, but at least it wasn’t “Obi Wan is really the father”
Father figures are important. Luke has 3 (Owen, Obi Wan, Vader), while in Anikan’s eyes, Obi Wan goes from Father figure to “like a brother.”
Yoda’s grammer actually gets better over next 20 years
Puppets are still better than CGI
May 21st, 2005 at 2:10 pm
So while I may not check every line of code in a game for my XBOX that I bought, I would check things out on a game I had made. I think if I were on the Jedi Council and had to use these “clones” that I would at least check out the programming to see what they can and cannot do. Especially if the Jedi council never really trusted Palpatine! Why couldn’t the force detect something “wrong” about them? Nobody can still explain why the entire Jedi Council couldn’t detect the Dark Sith Lord two blocks over! OK, so Yoda never met with anyone other than Luke, doesn’t Luke mention to Han and Chewy that he’s going to the Dagoboth (sp?) System to look for Yoda? Wouldn’t Chewy say, “yeah I sent him off in a little rocket ship we just had hiding in the woods”? Another thing, when Lucas re-released EP 4-6, I believe it is in EP 5 where he removed a scream Luke made as he had his hand chopped off and he fell because Jedis do not scream, they have no fear. Yet we hear Jedi masters screaming when they get their hands chopped off or falling out a window (a la Mace Windu). And why couldn’t Jedi Master Obi-Wan use the force to knock the little robots off his space ship? It can be used to pick up an X-wing fighter out of the swamp, but cannot push little robots off a space ship.
May 21st, 2005 at 2:17 pm
I thought that Anakin’s transition to the Dark Side was a little vague. If only Lucas had made Anakin kill a kennel of Jedi puppies or something so that the audience wouldn’t be left so confused by such subtle moral dilemmas!
May 21st, 2005 at 2:51 pm
I loved the film, although at times it was emotionally painful to watch, which must be a first for a SW film. Although one thing that i really hated was the way Obi Wan just left Anakin for dead after saying he was his brother, loved him etc. Ahh maaan, that was the saddest part of the film. Didn’t he deserve another chance for all that? Oh well, at least he gets a reward for his ‘love’ in ANH.
May 21st, 2005 at 3:41 pm
I disagree that there was no reason to expect it to be good. Simply put, I had hope that George Lucas would want to make a movie that was good, which was of course, dashed to pieces. The vast majority of the holes could have been resolved. It’s not perfect either, but this synopsis sounds a hell of a lot better than what I saw. And that’s with only very minor adjustments.
May 21st, 2005 at 4:10 pm
Theory: Could the eternal life secret knowledge shenanigans explain why when Vader Kills OBW, OWB dissapears instead of just getting chopped in half like every other saber victim? Could they be paving the way for episode 7 starring old whassisface Mcgregor and thingy Neeson?
May 21st, 2005 at 4:11 pm
These sequels never did anything for me. Neither did Return of the Jedi. To me, Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back were magical. The rest of it seems like extended commercials for toy lines. Not to mention that after a while all of this Senate and Jedi talk gets tedious.
And this is coming from someone who saw SW and ESB in the movie theater multipe times as a kid.
Then this pile of Sith comes along. Of course you have hope that the mere connection between this last of the prequels and the first of the real films will compensate. Man, I could not have been more wrong.
All the connections to the original trilogy seem forced at best. Brought to a point when Obi Wan and Yoda are talking over expository plot points at the end of the film “Hey, I should go into exile… Yo, Bail you want a kid? And hey, who is going to be the one to say C3P0’s brain needs to be erased… Don’t forget to get a shot of a Pre-Grand Moff Tarkin…”
What a piece of junk.
And I’ve been affected by some of the hokiness in the past, but Vader’s ‘birth’ and screaming ‘Noooooo!’ at the end of the film brough me to tears of laughter. Holy crap was that the lamest thing I have ever seen! It was like an SNL parody of the film. And that is the most important moment in the film????!?!?!?!? Good lord! Vader was as scary as the guys in Vader costumes waiting in line.
Lost the will to live is the reason for the death of Padme? Fsyking hell! Whoi wrote this garbage?!?!?
But I will give the film props for one of the best/worst lines EVER spoken in the who Star Wars films.
“Go I will. Good relations with the Wookies, I have.”
Thanks Yoda. Are you now going to tell us that housing Chewbacca’s cat you have?
Thanks for ending this saga George Lucas. Now please leave movies alone.
May 21st, 2005 at 4:31 pm
Boy, I loved this movie. Can’t wait for the sequel. Hurry up, George!
May 21st, 2005 at 6:41 pm
Sigh. Episode 3. It seems like the added footage in the revamped eps iv,v,vi just foreshadowed how poop-tastic the prequels could be. Thanks for ruining something I really cherished from my childhood George. I’m still waiting to see Vader in a Tampax ad.
Star Wars sucks.
May 21st, 2005 at 10:09 pm
When I saw Star Wars (11 years old), I think it’s safe to say that Darth Vader was the baddest man in the whole damn town – the craziest, meanest, most hardcore evil guy I’d ever seen. With his army of clones, he reminded me of what I had learned about Hitler. After all these years, I finally get to see what exactly turned him to the Dark Side(tm) and it’s a chick?? Are you f’ing kidding me? I don’t think I’m being jaded in saying that’s about as lame an excuse for becoming Darth Vader as I can imagine. He goes from Gerber Baby to Damien in one move, two if you count the horror of being called “immature” by a council of Jedis – that’s downright lame. I was a meaner kid than Anni. And I had a boys name.
May 22nd, 2005 at 12:40 am
For some of the wierd transitions between Padme and Anakin, the screenplay has some dialog that didn’t make it into the movie. The part where Padme looks upset before telling about the baby,
Anakin: Are you all right? You’re trembling. What’s going on?
Padme: I’m just excited to see you.
Anakin: That’s not it. I sense more … what is it?
Padme: Nothing… nothing…
Anakain: You’re frightened. (a little angry) Tell me what’s going on!
PADME begins to cry
Padme: You’ve been gone five months…it’s been very hard for me. I’ve never felt so alone. There’s…
Anakin:…Is there someone esle?
Padme:(peeved angry) No! Why do you think that? Your jealousy upsets me so much, Anakin. I do nothing to betray you, yet you still don’t trust me. Nothing has changed.
Anakin:(sheepish) I’m afraid of losing you, Padme…that’s all
Later on when Anakin visits her place and asks angerly if Obi-won has been here recently it’s because of his previous talk with palpatine.
Palpatine: There are rumors in the Senate about Master Kenobi. Many believe he is not fit for this assignment
Anakin: Not fit? Why would anyone think that?
Palpatine: They say his mind become fogged by the influence of a certain female senator.
Anakin: That’s ridiculous. Who?!?
Palpatine:(slyly) no one knows who she is…only that she is a Senator
Anakin: That’s impossible. I would know.
Palpatine: Sometimes the closet are the ones who cannot see.
Hopefully the footage will come out in the directors cut. There are probably more examples but I’m not hardcore enough to pick out all of them.
May 22nd, 2005 at 12:53 am
We learned a long time ago that the robots need to talk out loud, and preferably in English – no more plotting against us. So no wifi.
Big John, in Episode I or II the Jedi mentioned their powers were weakening. It was difficult for them to see the Dark Side.
That Jedi Youngling who came out to warn/save the senator was awesome.
May 22nd, 2005 at 3:35 am
Ah it’s just a movie. Bad acting, but consistant.
Spoiler things below.
No one’s commented on the fact that Palpatine, in talking about how he killed his own dark lord, Darth something or other, essentially admitted that the dark lord created Anakin.
Palpy said his lord could coax midichlorians into creating life. Annie’s mother said to Qui-jon that there was no father in Annie’s conception. The Jedi council wonders if the midichlorians created Annie.
So Annie’s father was (sort of) the dark lord that Palpatine killed. So Annie’s mother could have known that dark lord, and perhaps knew Palpatine as well.
Does it have any real bearing on the story? It does if anyone cared about how Annie came to be.
May 22nd, 2005 at 5:50 am
good movie but the Jedis appeared so lame overall in it.
Grevious takes numerous Jedis in Clone Wars and all it needs to take him is 2 shots in its heart (?)… I would have more of Grevious fighting with all its arms.. was fun and unexpected.
Jedis can also not feel a thing when they are threathened (exception of Yoda and the one who dies on the bridge)… implies the trial you have to succeed to move from padawan to jedi is easy. Anakin was right not to do it.. waste of time ^^
The fight with Mace Windu and the emperor is weak imo… Mace doesn’t look as cool as in the cartoon. yeah I know it’s a cartoon and he’s fighting the emperor but the fights with Dooku were more immersive than this one but I wonder if Mace is really dead. All we see is him thrown faaaaaaar away and alive. In Clone Wars he survived to the same situation… hmm..
is it the Millenium Falcon we can see after the first battle when the’re back to corscant in the down left corner ?
To the Death Star problem, you must note that the Time is not working is the same way in the SW universe : like Anakin grows super fast and Padme doesn’t get any older… or that means they’re from different alien species ? oh ! Species can mix ?? Yoda + wookiette ??
Good movie anyway ^^
May 22nd, 2005 at 7:28 am
the have a remake of the love bug coming out.
May 22nd, 2005 at 8:55 am
“Only a sith deals in absolutes” is an absolute statement.
May 22nd, 2005 at 10:12 am
Jamie, I like that idea, although I’d gotten the sense that Palpatine was just flat-out lying about all of that – that it was just a line to tempt Anakin into joining him. Interesting stuff though. I might almost have bought the whole midichlorian thing if they were revealed to be the “secret sauce” that turned clones into real people. I’d like to see Chris Nolan’s or, even better, Michel Gondry’s version of that movie.
May 22nd, 2005 at 10:59 am
Okay, I’ve got complaints. Not about the plot holes in Episode III, but a few basic problems in technology. Remember, this is a technologically advanced alternate reality (a galaxy far away…) that makes our technologies seem stone-aged by comparison.
1) Propolsion Systems: Do you mean to tell me that all these flying machines, both planetary personal craft and giant space monsters run on liquid fuel? I assume this liquid is combustable, like petroleum. Where did it come from in such endless quantities, and how is it stored? And most importantly, how do they deal with emmissions, which were prominently ejected from every craft?
2) The planet where all the real action comes home to roost is one big urban downtown, not a speck of plant or animal life in sight. Assuming everybody breathes oxygen, where does it come from? Not only are billions or perhaps trillions of English-speaking humans consuming O2, there’s all those vehicles burning combustable fuel. So, where does the O2 come from?
3) OK, annikin gets burned. Badly. We low tech neanderthals in this time and space are on the verge of some amazing techniques for building human tissue, or life-like substitutes. Did these technologically advanced people abandon reconstructive surgery? Does darth Vader really have to cover his face with a helmet so that we aren’t upset with his burns?
4) Those replacement limbs that everybody seems to sport. Granted, perhaps the mechanical ones are better than the real thing, although in that case everybody would be volutarily having their limbs lopped off. But couldn’t they look a little more attractive, maybe covered with human tissue (see number 3 above) or maybe even entire limbs grown from your own stem cells and completely indistinguishable from the lost limbs?
To expect these technological advances is not unreasonable in our day and age. As for availability, I might remind you that this tale involves the elites of society, people and robots fighting for control. You can be sure that all the resources of society are at the fingetips of these folks.
As for the plot holes, I couldn’t give a damn. But these lapses are just plain stupid.
-dwvr
May 22nd, 2005 at 11:19 am
Wow, I had no idea this movie was so hated. I really enjoyed it. At least after the first 30 minutes I did. The four armed bad guy didn’t work for me. But really, picking apart plot holes … in Star Wars? That’s sad.
May 22nd, 2005 at 11:41 am
Why the assumption that even pop candy sci-fi action entertainment is somehow exempt from being self-consistent, well-written, or competently acted?
Am I watching an ILM demo reel?!? NO! I’m watching the 20 year culmination of a STORY, and one that started out compelling and mythical, and devolved into stilted, patchy, and, in some cases, goofy.
I don’t feel that George Lucas owes me a good movie, but on the other hand, I don’t owe him a good review, either.
May 22nd, 2005 at 1:08 pm
Garbage, yes, but in a series of movies that sucked, I think this one sucked a little less.
May 22nd, 2005 at 2:35 pm
Question: What was the actual amount of time that passed during this movie. Specifically between Anakin meeting Padme at the Senate and the night scene. Because, is it just me, or does this movie only take place over like 2 weeks, 2 weeks in which Padme is skinny as ever and then pregnant with two kids?
May 22nd, 2005 at 2:36 pm
It’s not science fiction.. Think about it. The series contains NO SCIENCE. It’s fantasy through and through.
May 22nd, 2005 at 4:27 pm
Kyle, I’m with you on that one… it seems like Padme gets really pregnant REALLY quick. One of my friends tried to pass it off as a midichlorians thing, which is just ridiculous.
May 22nd, 2005 at 6:23 pm
Yes, I was young when Star Wars premiered — a wee lad of 18, sitting in a packed college-town theater opening night, everybody whooping it up from the sheer rush of the thing…
And what a commanding rush it was: a buzz of excitement as the first ships rush by, then jaw-dropping awe as the big ship floats overhead. This must have been what it felt like to watch Wizard of Oz in 1939.
Plot holes? Sure, of course, and who cared? It was a wild and witty ride, a grand homage to the serials it referenced. Outstanding, clever fun.
I could say similar things about Empire (which added depth to the story), but all I remember of Jedi is that cursed Ewok Boogie at the end, and all I can say about the prequels is that Joseph Campbell has a lot to answer for.
All of which to say: For those of us who didn’t grow up with the series — who came to the movies as adults — what was compelling about the first two films has been sadly lacking in the final four. They haven’t been fun, they haven’t been clever, they haven’t been entertaining. They’ve been tiresome. (So why spend the bucks? Well, a geek’s just gotta see them through, despite it all…)
And George Lucas’s lasting achievement as a filmmaker? He must be the only director on the planet who can make Samuel L. Jackson dull.
May 22nd, 2005 at 7:52 pm
I thought I’d post and say this thread kicks ass… I’m sick of defending my position to the party-line Star Wars apologists out there.
The worst thing about these last three movies is not that they were awful. But that THEY COULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS GOOD AS THE FIRST THREE.
Oh, and saying that “Sith is better than Phantom or Clones” is like saying “the original Police Academy was WAY WAY better than Citizens on Patrol or Mission to Moscow.” That bar has not been raised that high by Lucas.
May 22nd, 2005 at 10:54 pm
You asses are too critical of a movie that is supposed to be about fantasy and wonder. Leave your critique at the door if you want to see a movie like this.
May 22nd, 2005 at 11:02 pm
I feel compelled to add to this that I had a discussion today with my 11-year old nephew, who was disappointed by the movie. He wanted to know why all the Jedi got taken out so easily.
May 22nd, 2005 at 11:56 pm
This is just a suggestion, so you don’t have to take it seriously or anything… but, GET A LIFE. Really how can you go on and on about a freakin movie. Enjoy it or don’t, but for the love of god move on with your lives.
May 23rd, 2005 at 1:02 am
So do Leia and Vader ever realize they’re related? Leia and Vader interact a lot, from her initial capture in Ep. IV, to their time together in the clowd city in Ep. V. Can Vader not sense the force in her? Does she simply not have much of “the force” in her? Or does he just not care about his daughter despite being so obsessed with his son? I haven’t seen Ep. VI in a long time, so I don’t recall if Luke and Leia discuss it. If so, Leia never seemed too bothered by the fact that her life long nemesis was her dad. If Leia is “the other hope” that Yoda and Obi Wan mention in Ep. V, they never really do much about it.
May 23rd, 2005 at 6:21 am
It doesnt seem worth trying to answer the many lame criticisms of Ep3 posted here, because if people used as much thought and imagination as they do finding ‘errors’ in the film into coming up with logical explanations for them, they might enjoy it more.
All the complaints seem to fall into 2 categories… Scientific Errors and Character Errors… Firstly as a previous poster said this is fantasy not science fiction. If you really want want it to be scientificly accurate, you would have to eliminate light-sabers, they’re just not scientificly possible. We all want them to be real though, so we all come up with a lot of excuses as to why they could be real… use that imagination for the rest of the scientific ‘errors’.
The character errors are equally lame… character motivations are always ambiguous, and just because a character doesn’t do or say what you think they should isnt a fault, its just a different vision of th chatacter… surely we should think Lucas knows his characters better then we do.
Ultimately, most people will probably not enjoy this or the other prequels as much as they did watching the original at cinema, because, surprise, they’re not children anymore. The new films are no less internally logical or consistant then the originals, no better or worse acted, they just have more CG. If anything, they contain a lot more politics then the originals, and in that respect I think they are more mature.
Episode 3 is great fun, so stop worrying about trying to relive your original star wars experience, and let yourself enjoy it!
May 23rd, 2005 at 9:34 am
I try to think of these the way GL intended. This whole series is not the story of The Empire and the Rebellion, but, the Fall and ultimate Redemption of Anikan Skywalker.
To answer why he never went looking for his family. It is possible he never wanted to. If you were told the one person you loved had died due to your anger, what would make you imagine that she had given birth to children before then? He would bury himself in his work, spending the next 20 years putting down the rebellion. In his mind, the Jedi are destroyed, and Yoda and Obi Won don’t make an appearance during this time period. Why bother going down to a planet that would obviously cause you emotional stress (remember his mother died there).
I think Obi Won doesnt kill him because he doesn’t have to, Boxin Ani proves the point completely. Maybe Vadar doesn’t go looking for him because he is scared S%$#less about what Obi Won would do to him next. If somebody gimped me, I wouldn’t go looking for a rematch.
The most dangerous place to be in the galaxy is on the right hand side of Vadar (the first obviously being in front of him) He is obviously not completely sold on the whold Dark Side Ideal, and when given the oppurtunity of seeing his son make the decision he could never do,( walking away from his anger, and suffering for it), He reclaims his humanity by casting aside the Dark Side of the Force.
Now, if Lucas could have hired a couple of good writers to really work the dialogue, this story would have the epic feel it is supposed to, and not Jar-Jar and “Hold me like you did at the lake on Naboo”. Someone should have gotten a restraining order against his kids for giving script ideas.
May 23rd, 2005 at 9:42 am
psuede, you’re missing the point.
I tried. I really tried. I wanted to like this movie. We are trying hard to come up with logical explanations, and there just aren’t any to be found because George just didn’t think that far ahead.
I don’t buy the “we’re not kids anymore” argument – the kids I talked to were equally as confused – as well they should be!
The original series may not be scientifically accurate, but that’s really not the point at all, because it is, however, mostly internally self-consistent. There’s a world there that’s cohesive, and when something new shows up, you think “Hey, that sort of makes sense” instead of “Whua? Where did that come from?”. That, and it has dialogue that, while corny in places, didn’t have the entire theater laughing during the tense, dramatic scenes.
May 23rd, 2005 at 11:06 am
Rampant CG is still the worst thing about the new trilogy.
Give your actors a set to act in, and then maybe they will actually be able to act.
The original trilogy had corny love scenes, stilted dialogue, and minor plot holes, but they were acted with spirit. Samuel L. is a good actor, right? How come he sucked more than anything ever after Anakin chopped his arm off? It was so bad. I’ll give you the reason. He was acting in front of a green screen.
May 23rd, 2005 at 11:12 am
I disagree. Sin City was shot entirely in front of a green screen. Some may disagree about whether it was a good movie or not, but it certainly wasn’t lacking in spirit.
May 23rd, 2005 at 4:31 pm
Biggest lesson learned: Live in the dessert and your looks will fade quickly. Man did beru hit a wall. She goes from slammin hot to granny serving blue milk in 19 years.
May 23rd, 2005 at 7:00 pm
many great comments here – I think an important point is that when a movie has great characters (meaning you give a shit about them), great plot, and great dialogue you’ll forgive most everything else. When it doesn’t have those things, EVERYTHING bad gets noticed.
in addition to all the major things mentioned by others,was anyone else disturbed by any of this :
1) Too much going on in the background! Bladerunner and Fifth Element created bustling, hectic cities that were still beautiful to behold. Every city shot in this just looked busy and distracting.
2) Outer space fight scenes were impossible to follow. Again, so much going on that it lost any impact. Battle scenes in Deep Space 9 or the new Battlestar Galactica had dozens of ships but you could still follow and get into the action. Here the scenes just looked insanely crowded and busy.
3) I swear i don’t normally nitpick, but there were so many scenes of ships with glowing thrusters behind them while they moved at an angle. You can only move opposite the direction of your propulsion – normally I don’t notice geek things like this but when I’m watching engines glow from behind while the ship moves in a different direction I notice.
4) It’s a small, small galaxy isn’t it? Padame jumps in her ship and gets to the lava planet in no time at all – Anakin is still hanging out. Wouldn’t you think the planet where the seperatist leaders are hiding might be, oh, slightly far away from the seat of the government???
5)The movie was briefly very cool when they went after the jedi, but that section should have been much, much better. Did anyone else feel cheated by not seeing the epic battle that must have taken place at the Jedi Temple?? The five seconds of that little kid Jedi kicking ass (while Jimmy Smits watched) was better than the entire rest of the film. I could have done without Obi Wan riding the dragon’s back to chase hot-rod Grievous (about as exciting as the droid factory sequence from the last one) and they could have given us more fighting Jedi.
6) The wookie planet – totally useless! Other than a geek nod to the old films, it was nothing exciting (and actually bordered on painful having to listen to the vine-swinging wookies letting out Tarzan yells) Is there anyone who can name one cool moment from that whole sequence? I laughed out loud when the head wookie stood up and let out his war cry.
7) Why were the clones killing all the wookies?? I thought they were going to do a great analogy to Stalin killing all the anti-Nazi underground leaders after WW II (because they obviously would have opposed him as well) but no explanation given.
Again…all of these were minor details compared to the lack of likeable characters, etc
May 24th, 2005 at 12:35 am
Thanks to Mark Fradl for noticing the clutter — there was no definition, no dramatic shape, to the action scenes, and I thought about Blade Runner too when looking at the city. There was a point to Blade Runner’s landscape — the towering pyramids, for example — that told you something significant about the evolution of Los Angeles. An entire backstory in a glance, which is really what “vision” is about.
And then there’s the Jedi massacre, which almost worked. My first thought — and I’m sure it wasn’t an accident — was the operatic massacre montage in Godfather (shout-out to Francis from George), and I was really pulling for it. Hell, for all I know it worked just fine, and the same sequence in a better-shaped movie would have had the impact it deserved. But in the movie as it stands, the massacre is yet another lost moment in the wilderness.
Overall, the most frustrating thing is that there really is a good movie — perhaps two — buried in the clutter. The major plot points (Anakin’s turn to the Dark Side, the collapse of the Republic into dictatorship) ring true in concept, but you don’t feel them on the screen. Nothing approaches the gut-wrenching chill of “I am your father” — imagine a movie where we see Anakin’s Choice as our own, the descent into hell as the price for saving the love of his life, and we leave the theater wondering what we would do in the circumstances. Or imagine a movie where the “freedom dies” line actually has its intended force, a movie that shows how patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
I’d still like to see that movie. Phantom Edit, anyone?
May 24th, 2005 at 5:12 am
My question is this, In episode 2, after Ani destroyed all the men, women and childern of the sand people, Yoda felt his pain and suffering. Yoda knew what happened, so why was Ani allowed to remain a Jedi after such a bloody act?
May 24th, 2005 at 6:19 am
All I have to say is that Star Wars is the greatest series of movies that totally suck! All of them are absolutely abominable … and great! Ep3 just sealed the deal.
One of biggest the biggest lessons you’ve all missed: Don’t Date The Jedi! Next time: cod pieces for the Padawans!
May 24th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
I don’t know what’s worse — the fact that you people have all these nits to pick over a flippin’ movie, the obvious sexual frustration you have over not actually being jedi yourselves, or the fact that I read every last comment on here.
Get some popcorn with yellow drizzle on it, sit down, revel in the theme song, get a thrill from the lightsaber fights and the big cool spaceships, sniffle because Anakin turns into Darth Vader and does bad things, then get up and go home with that “I just saw a Star Wars movie for the first time” glow you had when you were 7. That’s all. You people give me weird Napoleon Dynamite vibes with all this “Durrrr, this is too unrealistic” bullshit.
May 24th, 2005 at 4:06 pm
For the record, my schwartz is not to be questioned, and Napoleon Dynamite references are hereby banned.
May 24th, 2005 at 6:52 pm
Noodle, I was looking very forward to enjoying a Star Wars movie that was good not great — instead got one that was lame instead of good (as opposed to the last two which were painful instead of lame) As was mentioned, if it had been a decent film nitpicky shortcoming would have been overlooked, but as it is we feast on its carcass.
And why do I take pleasure in that? It’s revenge for them ramming this piece of crap down my throat with commercialization — they’ve sold themselves to every product endorsement this side of Sithdouche. They are the ones who tried to build it up as a cultural touchstone. A bad film I can say “Oh well” and go on. But a bad film that’s being trumpeted by product tie-ins from every TV commercial, food product, billboard and magazine as being culturally relevant makes me want to call “bullshit.” It’s their fault I’m watching their crap movie thinking “Ooo, Darth Vader is almost as scary on the big screen as he is on my box of Cheeze-Its.” If it was a well done film maybe I could have looked past that annoyance, but as it is I’ll never know.
May 24th, 2005 at 10:38 pm
To the subject of enormous schwanstuckers, let me add this: If Vader, taking his first Frankenstein steps, had broken into “Puttin’ on the Ritz,” I would have forgiven everything.
May 27th, 2005 at 7:51 pm
you’re meant to watch films like this halfway through and then walk out, you fools
PlotPoint(1/2) – The Jedi Council said that they were ok with Anni and shagging Padme AND him knocking her up
PlotPoint(2/2)[EXCISED] – The manslaughter of Padme by Anakin means that Obiwan delievers the twins by lightsaber-cesarean ….this is now implied
May 28th, 2005 at 12:58 am
I thought the randomness of the jedi’s ability to sense things using the Force was laughable.
Anakin CAN sense Dooku on the other side of an extremely large ship, however in the elevator shaft, Obi-Wan is inexcplicably startled by Anakin, his student of several years, dropping in behind him.
Anakin (along with Yoda and Obi-Wan for that matter) cannot sense the Jedi twins in Padme. A previous poster wondered why Vader didn’t check his brother’s for the twins…well he didn’t know they were alive because he thought Padme died along with their offspring, although he should’ve been able to ’sense’ them if the movie had in flibbin’ continuity at all.
May 28th, 2005 at 7:48 pm
Things I Learned Watching Revenge of the Sith
Maybe the Jedi temple should just spend less time on that flashy lightsaber stuff, and more time teaching novices to “Use the Brain.”
May 29th, 2005 at 5:30 pm
When Obi-Wan was riding the big lizard, I had this horrible thought:
“Master Yoda! I have good news! I saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to a gecko!”
May 30th, 2005 at 8:38 am
Something that always got me about this series of movies is the Force itself. A bigger storytelling crutch there never was. There are two sides to the spooky power that runs the univese, a good side and a bad side. The good side fights the bad side because the bad side wants to destroy the good side. Why? Because the bad side hates the good side. Why? As my seven year old cousin said once: “Because, Because! Thats why!”